I always use manual management as I prefer to have full control and visibility of the pipe. Typically I would place the ODT on the timeline node tree. For full ACES where I don’t need to exclude clips this is practical and I can also place my showlook under it on the same tree. If stuff is more mixed for the project I tend to place them on the group post clip tree so other groups can have different setups. With multiple cameras I use groups for each camera and have the showlook under timeline. With single camera I use the post group for the showlook so it’s easier to turn the entire look on or off without disabling the ODT. In both setups you get at least the benefit of disabling your clip grade tree without disabling your color pipeline.
So yea it’s flexible enough but not perfect. Especially because your groups are always occupied for colormanagement rather than creative grading. I can fully understand other users preferring a project lead color management setup
Hi all,
i am new to the Forum and also new to ACES.
First of all want to say thank you, for all the work you guys do in the forum.
I recently started working with a Fuji XH2s in Flog2.
I do not really understand how to create DCTLs.
All I know, the provided LUT from fuji looks awful. So my workflow using resolve color management and a LUT (only due to the lag of an IDT), will not happen.
@Shebbe What would be the correct workflow or node structure, project setup, using your DCTL for A: going to rec709 and/or going to rec2100 st2084? If yo still need some testing material let me know. I would be happy to provide some F-Log2 Material.
I tried as follows but it did not seem to work:
Project settings:
DaVinci YRGB
Timeline Colorspace: DWG/intermediate
Output Color Space: Rec709.A
Node structure:
Your DCTL → A node for grading → ODT using a CST from Aces AP0 and ACES CCT to Rec709 Gamma 2.4.
However, enabling and disabling the node with the DCTL has no effect at all.
You can then load an ACES Transform node and find the color space at the bottom of the list.
Regarding your setup you have other inconsistencies as well.
If you decide to grade in an ACES pipeline I would recommend also grading in ACEScct. For manual colormanagement this means setting your timeline to ACEScct, not DWG/Intermediate.
ACES Transform: Fuji FLog2 to ACEScct
Grading
ACES Output Transform ACEScct to Rec.709.
If you don’t care about the ACES workflow but just want to use the IDT for conversion you can stay in DWG/Intermediate. Leave the timeline to that but your data needs to be DWG/Intermediate as well. Otherwise your color space aware tools aren’t behaving as they should.
This would be:
ACES Transform: Fuji FLog2 to “No Output Transform” (AP0/Linear)
CST: AP0/Linear to DWG/Intermediate, no tone mapping, chromatic adaptation on.
Grading
CST: DWG/Intermediate to Rec.709/Gamma 2.4, DaVinci tone mapping, forward OOTF checked
The extra step at the input stage is necessary because DWG/Intermediate is not yet present in the ACES Transform list in Resolve.
Thanks a lot for your in-depth explanation, I will try this out as soon as I can.
Well I preferred to work auto color managed so far, since it felt easier. I mainly work with an XH2s and a BMPCC6K. If I manage my color in ACES or in ResolveColorManagement, is not too important for me as long as it works. so I will give your first node tree a try.
I just had problems in the past to find out how to use ACES for the BMPCC6K and Film v5, that’s why I avoided it.
Regarding your first node tree, could I put the third node “ACES Output Transform ACEScct to Rec.709” To the timeline level, and behind it a CST to “Rec.709-Cineon film log” and then a “LUT”.
In general does it make sense to grade under a LUT or better just add the LUT at the end.
Sorry so many questions.
—EDIT—
So i tried out what you have suggested. Still facing the same problem (maybe just a problem with my thought process). If I build the mentioned node tree, and set the correct project settings. Whenever I turn the ACES IN node on and off I do not see any change at all. Is that normal? or did I do something wrong creating the dctl?
That’s odd. Not sure why it’s not working. Mine works fine. Maybe try download mine and see what happens.
Regarding the rest of your manual management setup. ACEScct primaries are AP1 not AP0. You also don’t really need to use separate color space and gamma because you aren’t deviating from the default primaries+transferfunction combinations anyway.
I’d put anything that is part of your global look on the timeline level so it’s not copied over and over again. Just for simplicity and ease of adjustability.
I wouldn’t go to tone mapped Rec.709 first and then back to log through a different display transform. If you want to use cineon film luts it’s probably best to only use a CST to go from AP1/ACEScct to Rec.709/CineonFilmLog, then LUT, then output transform unless the LUT itself was already converting to Rec.709/Gamma 2.4 like the default PFE LUTs that come with Resolve.
I guess you mean before or after? If the intent of the LUT you use is film print emulation it’s a process that happens at the last stage of the image pipeline. So in that case it makes sense to place it at the end and grade underneath.
Also keep in mind that your intent is to grade in your chosen working space. If that’s ACEScct then stick to that if you want your color space aware operators to remain accurate. It wouldn’t make sense to convert to cineon from the get go unless you’d change your timeline working space to it.
Thanks for your efforts!
So using your DCTL definitely does do something. Seems that I either to stupid to do a copy & paste or using a standard MacOs text edit and transforming .crt to .dctl was a stupid idea.
So if I understood everything right then my process now is as follows:
Project settings:
DaVinci YRGB
TimelineColorSpace: ACES AP0 linear / ACES CCT
OutputColorSpace: Rec709 / gamma 2.4 (or in my case rec 709A due to apple stuf)
On the Colorpage:
Clip level:
ACES INPUT TRANSFORM to ACES CCT version 1.3
several nodes for adjustments and so on
ACES Output Transform to REC709 Cineon film log (if needed otherwise only 709 or 2100…)
Timeline level:
DaVinci FPE LUT (if I used cineon)
If no cineon, any global creative stuf (LUTs, Colonnades etc.)
Do i have to set my tools to the correct color space by hand, if I go the manual route, to make them color space aware?
AP1/ACEScct or if you uncheck use separate color space and gamma, just ACSEcct.
ACES doesn’t have a Rec.709/CineonFilmLog color space but they do have ADX10 which is equivalent. I am not sure if they are exactly the same. If it looks off, may want to use a CST to do this like I suggested. I would also move that conversion to the timeline level because it’s part of the global look and not your grading per clip.
As to the global setup, if you want to be efficient about it I would try moving everything except creative grading away from the clip level so while grading you can disable your clip nodes to evaluate changes without disabling your image pipeline.
I typically set the IDTs on the group pre-clip level and also things like noise reduction if it’s needed.
The only tool you can override is the HDR wheels via it’s dots menu, but it’s defaulted to read the chosen timeline space. The others will always be set to the color space defined in the project timeline color space. This is why it’s important to set this correctly to match the data you’re working with when grading.
If by tool you mean the DCTL that was discussed above your post, that was about FLog2 not FLog so that may be the expected result.
Do you mean DaVinci DRT (using Resolve Color Managed)? In RCM only FLog is available as far as I know so maybe again you were looking for FLog and not FLog2?
Yes I mean using RCM and am looking for Flog. The tool I meant was the one mentioned earlier by @tommyzenth “acesidtdctl”
I have also used some other Flog to aces transforms and they all have the same result. Is Fuji their own documentation wrong? Because they’re all using the specs as well specified by Fuji. Or are clipped highlights not supposed to be at the top of a waveform in ACEScct? I assume the transfers for Alexa do clip where I would expect them to clip.
I normally work with RCM and am trying out ACES because I wanted to learn a new thing. Not because I need to so it’s not a big problem.
Ah right. Did you compare within a manual setup with:
CST: Rec.2020/Flog → AP1/ACEScct / chromatic adaptation checked, no tone mapping, no forward or inverse OOTF
ACES Transform: ACEScct → Rec.709
And then the same clip with just an ACES Transform with the generated IDT → Rec.709?
Haven’t tested it myself but in my mind it should be the same. If you compared to using RCM you can expect different results because DaVinci DRT has different tone map than ACES, less contrast amongst things.
I did just now and your comment about tone mapping is what made it equal. Why does that happen? Clipped highlights on the Arri footage stay at 1023 on a waveform regardless of tonemapping. So why doesn’t that happen for the flog footage?
Can someone explain how to color grade X-H2S FLOG-2 footage in Davinci Resolve 18.6?
There is a lot going on with this conversation, which is great, except for the fact that I’m now confused.
You all rock, and I like to hang out with nerdy people who know what they’re doing and the tech behind this. I just need someone to explain to me like I’m 10 years old. I hope I don’t have to customize and do some C++ coding or HTML, CSS, etc…
I can’t seem to find a simple answer anywhere. Is it possible correct the colors with a few nodes?
Sure, where do you think you might be getting stuck? The general idea is to download and paste the DCTL code file into the right folder on your machine for DaVinci to use within it’s “ACES Transform” plugin (the DCTL makes an extra entry show up in the list of that plugin), and use it to transform the F-Log2 footage into a more common working space for grading (such as ACEScct or DaVinci Intermediate).
This post earlier in the thread from Shebbe summarized the process well, and they had a link to download their DCTL here.
Regarding your setup you have other inconsistencies as well.
If you decide to grade in an ACES pipeline I would recommend also grading in ACEScct. For manual colormanagement this means setting your timeline to ACEScct, not DWG/Intermediate.
ACES Transform: Fuji FLog2 to ACEScct
Grading
*** ACES Output Transform ACEScct to Rec.709.**
When I’m looking at the settings (on the color tab) for the ACES Transform node,
I have:
Is that right? I don’t see “ACES Output Transform ACEScct to Rec.709.” like above in my options. All I can see is EITHER one. I see ACEScct - CSC, or Rec 709. The instructions imply that there are two steps within that one drop down and I’m lost.
What I mean there is that you start with an ACES Transform node with the settings exactly as you show here. Optionally you can apply the Reference Gamut Compression if you have images with things like bright colored lights that are clipping.
Then on any subsequent nodes you place after, you are grading in ACEScct, the log working space for ACES. At the end of your node tree setup, wether that’s on the clip level or group or timeline level node tree, you apply another ACES Transform node with the input set to ACEScct and the output to Rec.709. That node will take you from the log working space you were grading in to the target display/deliverable.
The goal is to create what some folks call a “color management sandwich”. Input on one side, output on the other. In a large project you can take care of this at the group level, or make it into a preset (powergrade) so you can quickly apply this setup to all your Fuji shots going forward.
This screenshot is very helpful and looks great. I tried it out and I didn’t cringe at the visual result, which probably means its working
It was doing some weird stuff with the reds, but then again I added an additional serial node (in the sandwich) with only a LUT applied - the official FujiFilm FLOG2 LUT. To me it looks bad after I added it. however, I then went into the “Key” editor on the color tab, and brought the “key Output” gain to .5 and it looks decent to me now.
I have another question regarding this:
Since I went through all the steps to work in the ACES color space, does that then mean I DON’T NEED to use the FujiFilm provided LUT?
If someone knows how this works, my gears are turning…
Correct. The ACES pipeline is taking over handling of all that. The advantage of this is that other (non-fuji) cameras can also be mixed into this pipeline now, and they should all (theoretically) give a near identical look.
The Rec. 709 LUTs provided by manufacturers (or any output transform really) are their particular aesthetic choice on how to do output rendering, for better or for worse. There are a lot of opinions on
how it should be done. Same reason most “standard picture profile” modes on various cameras all look totally different. The goal of ACES is to standardize the output rendering, along with the rest of the pipeline for easier exchange. In theory any camera compatible with such system becomes effectively just a “fancy light meter” or perhaps a “photon collection device”.
You can of course swap the output with your own personal taste of color space transforms & LUTs, though at that point you are deviating from the ACES standard. That likely doesn’t matter if you’re working by yourself, but if you were producing a film with 20 VFX vendors involved and hundreds of people doing QC who all need to be seeing the same result, it might start to matter.
