ODT without changing the grade and round trip from premier

Hello, I’m fairly new to the ACES workflow so what I’m looking for is an answer.
I use ACES in DaVinci Resolve, and besides all the clear advantages if using ACES there’s something that I still don’t quite understand and that is regarding the ODT.

Is it true that when I’m working in ACES (ACEScc specifically), when I’m done with all my color grading, I can simply select the right ODT for what I need (Rec 709 vs Rec 2020 vs DCI-P3(d65) etc…) without having to change my grade and the result will be the same on the appropriate monitor, TV, teather projector etc…?
meaning that, for example, if I want to work on a project that will be reales both on theater and on the internet, I’ll use ACEScc, do my color grade then export one in Rec 709 for the internet and one in DCI-P3 for leather, and on both monitor the color will be “The same”. Obviously the color space is different so there will be some sort of difference, but my grade will actually be the same?

Is this one of the advantages or am I wrong?

Also, I’m interested in knowing about the round trip from adobe premiere to davinci and then back. I did some test and it looks like ACES doesn’t affect the round trip between these 2 programs, but I would like to know if it actually is true that I don’t loose any color information once I export the xml from davinci back into premiere while using ACEScc. And if I do loose information, should I not come back to premiere and just export the final movie from davinci?

Thank you.

Broadly yes, the intent is that your grade will look “the same” on different displays each with the appropriate Output Transform. There are, of course a few caveats, which mean that a trim pass done in the intended viewing environment on a particular display type is important. But just switching Output Transform will give you a good start point.

  1. Where a display type has a wider dynamic range and/or gamut that the one you used when initially grading, you will see aspects of the image that it was not possible to see originally. You may well want to adjust the grade if a practical light or background sky becomes distractingly bright, or a colour distractingly saturated.

  2. Equally, if you do your initial grade in a wide gamut and/or high dynamic range format you are able to do things which cannot be replicated in Rec. 709. The default result of switching Output Transform may lose some of the creative intent, and it may be necessary to make slightly different choices for each scene and shot to maintain the intended look.

  3. Although, for example, Rec. 709 and DCI-P3 versions may be “the same” when the appropriate Output Transforms are used, because the screen size, absolute luminance, display technology (emissive vs. reflective) and viewing environment are different, the same image may be perceived differently by the audience. Therefore you should trim the two versions so that they “feel the same” when viewed separately, rather than “look the same” when viewed side by side.

Regarding round-tripping back to Premiere, I assume you are talking about sending rendered graded shots back to Premiere for finishing. If done properly there should be no problem with doing this. Finishing in a different system is a commonly used approach. It is just important to check that a suitable format and bit depth is used for renders, so that there is no significant generational quality loss in the process. Resolve renders everything in 32-bit float, whereas Premiere can default to 8-bit. Check all your settings.

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Great! Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, I think I have a better understanding now.

This might not be a question for this forum, but do you happen to know which export setting in premiere preserves the 10 or 12 bit files instead of an 8bit?

For the internet, I’m not really concerned by all this, as H.264 will be enough for me, but if I’m planning on a theatrical release (excluding of course the DCP export) should I only do Apple prores? is there another codec that preserves the 10 or 12 BIT file without being such a big file?

Again, Thank you so much.

I read this note in an article about color from 2018…

Worth checking out…